What do you want from a food service?
One of the reasons that I think I'm more disappointed with the delivery of B.A. is that I participated in the student focus group last year to help the school's consultant figure out what students most wanted from a food service. Honestly, of the options made available, I agree that B.A. was the best hands down if only because of its commitment to relying on sustainable resources and local suppliers. But it also promised to make nutrition a huge priority. Many of the students in the focus group with me responded positively to the idea of healthier options since one of our biggest complaints about Aramark was the how much more difficult it was to procure, say, a vegetable or grilled chicken than it was getting french fries (And Aramark's idea of vegetarian or vegan = healthy didn't go over well, either. Seriously, fried tofu is great, but not the best thing you could be eating).
But again, many of our other "wants" in a food service went unmet. Like having at least one on-campus facility open at all hours to accomodate student schedules (my suggestion was a compromise between cost and health--a 24 hour cereal bar that offered a variety of milks, fruits and other add-ins that I've heard about operating at other schools, but that was an "ideal" case and I knew when I said it that it'd never fly). Or more consideration for student point budgets since 15 points a day only covered the cost of two meals at 8-9 points a pop, nevermind snacks, drinks or breakfast. I mean, I don't think we were thinking that big. But honestly, in terms of hours of operation, I see almost no difference between B.A.'s and Aramark and I feel like that's a let down. As for costs, I've no idea how they're going to price things. But supplanting mocon-style lunches with a la carte almost universally means pricier, with a normal meal consisting of say a 6 point sandwich, 2 point drink, 4 point salad, etc. (If they run things like they ran Vegan, I know I'll be out of points before November. Xue won't make it until midterms. If that.)
Anyway, I'm curious as to what you guys think. What do you hope for B.A.? What did you hope for during the contract bidding? In your ideal college setting, what would the food service be like? What would be the best option for Wesleyan? Incoming freshmen and rising sophomores, what do you most hope for a food service given you're (for better or worse) pretty bound to it?
77 comments:
There are a few things that were really important to me in a food service:
- treats the workers well
- has good vegetarian options available
- decently priced and I'm able to eat 2 meals a day and a snack comfortably on my points
- tasty food
So all in all, I was pretty satisfied with Aramark, and was a little sad that we were going to be switching companies. For all our complaining about Aramark, I felt the food was pretty good, the veggie options great, and the workers' union really wanted them to stay. The pricing wasn't great, but B.A. seems far more expensive.
Something I didn't really think about until this post - I've been told that B.A. *is* more expensive than Aramark or any of the competitors, but that our meal plan price wouldn't be affected by it. Since the administration is actively trying to cut costs across the board (cough, library, professors), I was surprised, since this meant less money for our precious endowment. However, what I didn't think about until this post is that we might wind up getting a meal plan that *costs* the same to us, but that our points will just buy us less. We all know that Vegan was more expensive when Aramark was here, largely because they bought expensive organic produce and such. If the entire food market here is like that (organic & sustainable & local produce), does that mean that every eating place will just cost more points, and we will run out faster? I sincerely hope this is not the case. Of course, this is just conjecture, and probably they have things reasonably well-planned. I guess we'll find out in the fall.
Though that would make a pretty big difference on whether it would be worth it to get the 5-meal plan, even as a junior or a senior who didn't plan to cook most of the time.
Holly: You said you don't see a big difference in hours of operation between Aramark and B.A., but in reality, it will be much better this year... yes, late night and weshop hours are worse, but the "Café" is open 8am-8pm everyday, the main "Marketplace" is open 8am-3pm and 5pm-8pm weekdays. That is more flexibility in the morning/afternoon and an earlier start to dinner. On weekends, we have 11am-2pm instead of 11:30-1:30, an hour improvement.
I assume for upperclassmen this is a disappointment, but for those that will be dining mainly in Usdan, this is a welcome change compared to the Summerfields/MoCon hours of last year.
I didn't have a problem with the food last year, so as long as it isn't any worse, I'll be happy!
Anon #1: Exactly what I was thinking myself as I was writing it. Would it be better to be on the 5 meal plan? However, please be aware that you can change your meal plan during the first two weeks of school, so if you decide it might be a good idea to switch, you still can.
Anon #2: In response to the hours, the school reminded us last year that Davenport First Floor was open from 8am to 8pm and on weekends for lunch. So I mean, simply being open doesn't mean they were offering anything other than cold, greasy pizza and hamburgers. So actually, as far as hours go, it's not that big of an improvement, but if quality is dramatically improved, then I agree, that would be something.
TWENTY FOUR HOUR FOOD OPTIONS
WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS
NOT EVERYONE LIVES ON THE SAME SCHEDULE
Twenty four hour food options simply cost too much to operate. No food service is open 24/7 in commercial America. I think this is one of the worst ideas, not to mention all the energy wastes just so ten or so people can get food at 4 am.
Plan ahead for god's sake and get a snack earlier in the day to eat later. It's not really that hard.
"no food service is open 24/7 in commercial America"
McDonald's has 24 hour drive through, as do many other fast food chains. Also, there are 24 hour diners and stores. So I'm not sure what commercial America you are thinking of. People have different schedules, but it is true that with some planning and Annie's Mac we should all be set.
Hell, Athenian has food service 24/7 and that's nearby (though not near enough to walk conveniently, sadly). There are plenty of other examples.
I wouldn't necessarily have needed 24hr service, but something going til 3am-ish would have been nice. Especially if it wasn't as far away as Summerfields. And there really, really needs to be somewhere near a library to get tea/coffee at that time too. If they won't keep pi open, can't they make some sort of vending machine/hot drink machine blend?
24 hour food options are stupid. Maybe around finals, but I don't think it would be successful enough to warrant people working there.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm pretty worried about my junk food. I don't like healthy food and I think it's good that local food organizations are supported but I still need the crap that I trust. From what I read about BA I'm worried that my only choice for dining will be Weswings
EVERYONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO GO VEGAN. THE PEOPLE SHOULD BE FED WHAT IS GOOD FOR THEM AND THE PLANET, NOT WHAT THEY SELFISHLY DESIRE. THE FOOD SERVICE WILL RUTHLESSLY SUPPRESS ALL INSTANCES OF MEAT EATING. A GIANT PIT WILL BE CONSTRUCTED TO STORE ALL DISSIDENTS. WE CAN THROW OUR TOFU SCRAPS IN THERE TO PREVENT THEM FROM STARVING TOO QUICKLY.
EVERYONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO EAT MEAT. THE PEOPLE SHOULD BE FED WHAT IS TASTY AND HELPS THEM GROW TO BE BIG, STRONG, HEALTHY ADULTS, NOT FOOD THAT MAKES THEM GROW VAGINAS ALL OVER THEIR BODIES. THE FOOD SERVICE WILL RUTHLESSLY SUPPRESS ALL INSTANCES OF VEGETABLE EATING. A GIANT PIT WILL BE CONSTRUCTED TO STORE ALL DISSIDENTS. WE WON'T BOTHER THROWING OUR MEAT SCRAPS IN THERE BECAUSE VEGANS ARE ALL SELF-RIGHTEOUS BASTARDS WHO'D RATHER STARVE THAN EAT SOMETHING WITH FLAVOR.
SELF-RIGHTEOUS IS RIGHT. WE ARE MORALLY SUPERIOR TO YOU AND ONE DAY YOU WILL BE MADE TO FACE UP TO YOUR CRIMES.
PS - I WILL HAPPY TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU IN PERSON TO PROVE THAT VEG IS STRONG
Is this the work of those Vegan Death Squad people again?
MOTHERFUCKER YOU DONT KNOW THE WAYS OF THE VDS CRIMINAL SYNDICATE. QUIET DOWN AND GO ADVERTISE SOME APPLE PRODUCTS.
I agree with Kate's post mostly. Even if there was just a place to get coffee or tea after we finish studying in the library at 2am, that'd be great.
You know, it is just food. It's that irresistable blend of hydrocarbons and othr assorted chemical goodness that you simply cant get enough of. Yes, the method in which it is served and distributed differs slightly, but I mean, really, is one shitty catering company that much better or worse than another? You're not going to boycott your food points and spend a couple hundred bucks a month to prove a point. (If you're rich enough to afford that, can I talk to you about a zero interest loan?) You will eat it, as will I, as will every single other WesPerson who has a craving for some too-salty chicken served with bland mashed potatoes at 11 PM.
As if you could get salty chicken and bland mashed potatoes at 11pm.
Chicken fingers, yes. But a meal that wasn't deep fried? No.
According to Camille Dolansky on the parent listserv (hooray students reading that bizness!):
*A meal is defined as "all you care to eat" available in the following locations and meal times: dinner (7 nights a week) and Sunday brunch in the Marketplace (Usdan University Center); lunch and dinner in Summerfields (the
Butterfields).
*1 point = $1. Items purchased a la carte are priced individually. Points may be
purchased as needed through the WesCard (https://onecard.wesleyan.edu/).
*The points (or cash) cost for an "all you care to eat" meal is $9.25.
*Breakfast is always a la carte, and students use points to purchase breakfast, if desired. Breakfast will be served out of the marketplace beginning at 8AM during
the week and the offerings will include a full complement of hot and cold items. The Pi Cafe also provides some baked goods options in the morning.
*Lunch options include a la carte purchases in all venues or a meal option in Summerfields (open for *Students may use points for purchases in WEShop, the campus mini-market.
...So from what I understand, 1 point will actually be equivalent to $1 this year (as opposed to 1.30ish as in previous years/plans), so even if it costs more points, it will actually be less money. Also, this clarifies the actual price for Usdan buffet meals.
YOU FUCKING SPOILED MEAT EATERS ARE GOING TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS THAT FOOD IS POLITICS EVEN IF THAT MEANS THE GUTTERS RUN RED WITH HUMAN BLOOD. FOR THOSE SEEKING TO ESCAPE FROM THIS CAMPAIGN OF PURE JUSTICE, THE VDS WILL SOON BE OPERATING YOUTH RE-EDUCATION CAMPS ON A CAMPUS NEAR YOU. WE WILL OFFER A STANDARD IDEOLOGICAL REASSIGNMENT PACKAGE ALONG WITH BASIC SMALL ARMS AND HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT TRAINING. SUCCESSFUL RECRUITS WILL BE SPARED, BUT JUDGEMENT OF ALL OTHERS WILL BE SWIFT AND MERCILESS
I eat vegan. They're just hard to catch. And a bit stringy.
KID, I WOULD FUCKING LAY YOU OUT ON THE CONCRETE IF YOU SAID THAT TO MY FACE. WATCH YOURSELF AT WESLEYAN FRIEND, VDS IS EVERYWHERE AND WE DONT FUCK AROUND
Well, I'd be more worried if you didn't have iron, protein and Vitamin B12 deficiencies.
SAY THAT SHIT ANONYMOUSLY ALL DAY LONG, BUT I SWEAR TO GOD THAT IF I EVER FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE YOURE GONNA REGRET IT FOR AT LEAST 4 YEARS
WELL, AS INTIMIDATING AS TALKING LIKE THIS IS, I DON'T THINK I'M GONNA REGRET ANYTHING
just wait until you come to campus in a couple months, i will fucking find you and we can settle this in person. you have a big fucking mouth for a 2011 newjack, i assure you that you will get knocked down a peg or two when school starts... if not by me, there are plenty of others who wont stand for your insults
Calm down. Leave the foolish frosh alone.
I think that a significant good thing about a la carte is that people seem to waste less, because each item adds cost so everyone have to think more carefully about what they get. Also, it is good training for the real world, where, for example, a limited budget makes it unfeasible to get a drink besides tap water at every meal. I am not that big an eater - and I still usually run out of points by the end of the semester - so maybe I have somewhat of a skewed perspective, but I do think there are good things about having a more limited meal plan, and that when the benefits of more limited hours are more worker benefits and more sustainably produced food, it is worth it.
Hey, let's be nice to the freshmen.
And in response to the post above about one point being $1: I think it was that way with Aramark, as well. It was just that, at the beginning of the year, there was a service fee that made the meal plan cost more money than students were able to use in points.
No variety of tofu, tofurkey, soy dog, or any other imitation meat (yes, imitation implies that it strives, but is ideologically inferior to the real thing) will ever be better than a nice, juicy skirt steak cooked on a charcoal grill. I'll have my meat, when and were I want it, without worrying about VDS and their soy milk squirt guns.
I eat a vegan everyday.
mmm...a nice thick, juicy rare top sirloin steak grilled on a weber black kettle....mmmmm...
Meat's great and all but all I want is my food to be dripping with GREASE
VDS squad is all talk, they don't have the protein to death squad anybody
haha...man, I don't rag on you for your food choice. relax. it's food. people are biologically pre-set to eat meat. so chill.
I really wish it were possible to get coffee before 1 pm on a weekend. Pi Cafe is a fucking COFFEE SHOP-- in the real world, no coffee shop opens later than 7. Yes, some of us wake up before noon, and we do need coffee.
Tonight Bon Apetit catered a barbecue dinner thing in Fauver that the RAs helped put together. I would like to remark that though it was a barbecue, they had vegetarian options BESIDES veggie burgers! They were these really yummy mock rib things. I don't know how they compare to real meat because I've never eaten such ribs, but apparently others say they compared favorably.
Also, there was real blue cheese dressing for the salad available. With real chunks. Mmm.
So, so far, it doesn't seem bad to me! Hope they keep it up.
"No variety of tofu, tofurkey, soy dog, or any other imitation meat (yes, imitation implies that it strives, but is ideologically inferior to the real thing) will ever be better than a nice, juicy skirt steak cooked on a charcoal grill. I'll have my meat, when and were I want it, without worrying about VDS and their soy milk squirt guns."
THIS KIND OF STATEMENT IS WHY VDS HAS TO EXIST. HUMANS CAN'T BE REASONED WITH OR APPEALED TO WITH FACTS, THEYLL COME UP WITH INFINITE EXCUSES TO JUSTIFY THEIR DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR. DO YOU REALLY THINK ITS OK THAT 10 BILLION ANIMALS DIE IN THE US EACH YEAR JUST BECAUSE IT SATISFIES YOUR TASTEBUDS? ARE YOU SERIOUSLY THAT SELFISH? I ASK THAT RHETORICALLY BECAUSE I REALLY DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR OPINION, ITS JUST PLAINLY WRONG AND IF YOU CANT FIGURE IT OUT YOU OUGHT TO BE FORCED TO COMPLY AT GUNPOINT
random kid from '11: IT ISNT JUST A FOOD CHOICE, ITS MASS SLAUGHTER FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN THAT YOU LIKE THE TASTE OF THEIR DEAD FLESH. DONT TRY TO FUCKING BACK OUT NOW, YOU ALREADY MADE YOURSELF A SWORN ENEMY. IM COUNTING THE DAYS UNTIL I FIND YOU.
justin: FUCK OFF. ILL THREATEN WHOEVER I FEEL LIKE
"I REALLY DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR OPINION, ITS JUST PLAINLY WRONG AND IF YOU CANT FIGURE IT OUT YOU OUGHT TO BE FORCED TO COMPLY AT GUNPOINT"
And it's attitudes like that that are responsible for so many of the world's problems...
hey, vds guy. you know, you condemn the eating of meat as an atrocity, seemingly as an affront to the natural order. but you know, the really interesting thing is that you are the one that is really going against the natural order. Humans are reliant on eating meat. As you find out in any intro level Bio course, people need nutrients in meat to live healthfully. And FYI, the only reason you can be so indignant about eating meat is because you live in a country where you can afford to ignore normal dietary needs and artificially change your diet and supplement it with artifical vitamins and pills. In terms of getting away from the natural human diet, you're probably worse than most Americans. Granted, it's a healthy lifestyle, but an unnatural one at that. SO SERIOUSLY, get down off of your self righteous soap box and stop criticizing the majority of the population that chooses to eat meat. And by the way, I try to eat organic, free range meat as much as I can.
actually, you can live an extremely healthy lifestyle from just produce. you do not need artificial vitamins and pills, thank you very much. I use them, because I'm lazy, but you can get everything you need from natural, vegetarian, and completely unprocessed foods.
well, you do still need vitamin B12, which, if I recall correctly, is only found in mammal tissue. I'm not saying it can't be done; I'm just saying it's not the biological ideal for the human body. It's really healthy, but it's not perfect.
Is this the most-commented-on post at Wesleying yet?
"hey, vds guy. you know, you condemn the eating of meat as an atrocity, seemingly as an affront to the natural order. but you know, the really interesting thing is that you are the one that is really going against the natural order. Humans are reliant on eating meat. As you find out in any intro level Bio course, people need nutrients in meat to live healthfully. And FYI, the only reason you can be so indignant about eating meat is because you live in a country where you can afford to ignore normal dietary needs and artificially change your diet and supplement it with artifical vitamins and pills. In terms of getting away from the natural human diet, you're probably worse than most Americans. Granted, it's a healthy lifestyle, but an unnatural one at that. SO SERIOUSLY, get down off of your self righteous soap box and stop criticizing the majority of the population that chooses to eat meat. And by the way, I try to eat organic, free range meat as much as I can."
ILL GO AHEAD AND ENTERTAIN YOUR AMTEURISH THEORETICAL MUSINGS FOR A MOMENT WHILE I GENTLY STEER YOU TOWARD THE GLARINGLY OBVIOUS BOTTOM LINE. I DONT CARE ABOUT WHATS "NATURAL", THOUGH YOU SEEM TO BASE YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT ON IT. IS HETEROSEXUALITY NATURAL AND QUEERNESS THEREFORE A DEVIATION? ARE SOME RACES NATURALLY SUPERIOR? ARE HUMANS DESTINED BY NATURE TO DOMINATE OTHER SPECIES? EVERY HISTORICAL INVOCATION OF THE 'NATURAL ORDER' HAS BEEN SHOWN TO BE HARMFUL AND FALSE. YOUR FATE IS NO DIFFERENT, ILL DEMONSTRATE USING AN EXAMPLE YOU PROVIDED:
LETS SUPPOSE FOR A MOMENT YOURE CORRECT ABOUT B12, THAT IT COMES FROM MAMMAL FLESH AND THAT VEGANS NEED SUPPLEMENTS TO ATTAIN IT. UNDER YOUR CONCEPTION OF WHATS DIETARILY NATURAL THIS IS PROOF THAT EATING MEAT IS SUPERIOR AND NECESSARY.
WHO CARES? IF HUMANS CAN GET THE VAST MAJORITY OF NUTRIENTS THEY NEED FROM VEGETABLE SOURCES BUT HAVE TO TAKE A FEW SUPPLEMENTS IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK TO ALLEVIATE THE SUFFERING OF BILLIONS? OH WAIT, THATS UNNATURAL AND WE OUGHT TO EAT MEAT
YOU ARE WRONG OF COURSE - B12 IS CREATED BY BACTERIA, NO ANIMALS ARE REQUIRED TO PRODUCE IT. I DONT TAKE SUPPLEMENTS, AND I GOT SCREENED A FEW MONTHS AGO AND HAD NORMAL LEVELS. I GET MY B12 FROM THE FORTIFIED FOODS COMMON IN AMERICA, WHICH YOU RIGHTFULLY POINT OUT IS A LAND OF PLENTY. (IN RICH PLACES MOST NUTRITIONAL PROBLEMS ARE MATTERS OF EXCESS, NOT DEFICIENCY. GOTTEN SCURVY LATELY?)
ITS DEFINITELY TRUE THAT THERE ARE PLACES IN THERE WORLD WHERE EATING VEGAN IS UNREASONABLE. FOR LOTS OF PEOPLE EATING MEAT IS NECESSARY FOR SURVIVAL. BUT THE MEAT PRODUCTION IN MANY, MANY OTHER PLACES IS ON A LEVEL FAR BEYOND WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR SUBSISTENCE. ANIMALS ARE NOW A MARKETPLACE COMMODITY, SLAUGHTERHOUSES TURN A PROFIT BY MAINTAINING BRUTAL CONDITIONS TO MINIMIZE COST. ALL OF THIS IS DONE TO ALLOW YOU TO EAT FLESH WHENEVER YOU PLEASE.
YOU LIVE IN A PLACE WHERE, AS YOU PUT IT, ONE CAN "ignore normal dietary needs and artificially change your diet." THIS GOES FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN ATTENDANCE AT WESLEYAN. IF THERE IS EVEN A SLIGHT CHANCE YOU CAN USE THE NUTRITIONAL OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO YOU TO HELP OUT SOME TORTURED ANIMALS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME KEEPING YOURSELF HEALTHY THAN WHAT GOOD REASON DO YOU HAVE NOT TO DO SO? ONLY SOME DUBIOUS CLAIMS ABOUT WHAT HEALTHIEST/MOST NATURAL
"And it's attitudes like that that are responsible for so many of the world's problems... "
THE DANGEROUS ATTITUDE IS THE NOTION THAT FREE HUMAN CHOICE OUGHT TO DETERMINE WHAT IS MORALLY APPROPRIATE. YOU WANT TO EAT MEAT, IT TASTES GOOD, I DONT FUCKING CARE. YOU WANT TO DRIVE YOUR SUV, YOU WANT A BIGGER HOUSE, YOU WANT YOUR SHOES TO BE CHEAPER AND COME IN MORE COLORS. SUCH FRIVOLOUS TALK DOES NOTHING TO JUSTIFY BILLIONS DEAD AND DYING BEHIND THE SCENES. HUMANS BEINGS CANT HANDLE THEIR FREEDOM, THE TIME HAS COME FOR CHANGE. CENTRALIZED VEGAN DICTATORSHIP WILL ELIMINATE EVERY SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEM, IT IS THE ONLY SOLUTION
It's like over-the-top satire...
Someone around the middle of the page complained about Pi not opening until 1 on the weekends. Yeah, that's annoying. But have you thought about getting a coffee maker? I have a Mr Coffee that I bought for $14 and it works like a charm. Even though you're gonna need to buy ground coffee and filters at Weshop, it's still way cheaper to make your coffee than to always buy at Pi.
SPOILER: VDS guy is a troll.
Question. Once we have a vegan dictatorship, and people no longer eat animals, will the VDS stop lions eating gazelles? And stop wolves from eating sheep? And frogs eating flies? And ameoba
from eating smaller single-celled organisms? I understand where you're coming from, but you are quantifying "suffering" in a way it can't be quantified.
For someone who hates meat products, you're quite the ham.
Ah yes, dictatorships always do solve so many problems...
I'm the one that posted about coffee- and yes, I have my own coffee maker too, and it's fine. I just think it's ludicrous that I can't go chill at Pi before 1 in the afternoon on a weekend.
you're gonna stop humans from meat eating, huh? you and what army? people have a right to eat what they want, so you and VDS can go cry yourselves to sleep. are you saying I can't purchase a chocolate bar because it's cheaper to much on sugar cane? why don't you troll somewhere else... actually, why don't you email Al Gore, I'm sure that environmentally-conscious man can fly you out to his place on one of his many polluting private jets and you two can chat.
"SPOILER: VDS guy is a troll.
Question. Once we have a vegan dictatorship, and people no longer eat animals, will the VDS stop lions eating gazelles? And stop wolves from eating sheep? And frogs eating flies? And ameoba
from eating smaller single-celled organisms? I understand where you're coming from, but you are quantifying "suffering" in a way it can't be quantified."
BOY DO I GET TIRED OF WAVE AFTER WAVE OF STUPID PEOPLE. DO LIONS KEEP MILLIONS OF GAZELLES CHAINED TOGETHER IN TINY CAGES TO BE CHOPPED APART ON A CONVEYOR BELT?
MOST NON-HUMAN ANIMALS DO NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY FOR MORAL DECISION MAKING, NOR ARE THEY CAPABLE OF THE KIND OF MASS EXPLOITATION PERPETUATED BY HUMANS ON A DAILY BASIS.
UNLIKE LIONS AND FROGS, HUMANS DO NOT OCCUPY A SUSTAINABLE ECOLOGICAL NICHE. HENCE VDS NEED ONLY REGULATE HUMANS - THIS WILL BE CARRIED OUT WITH ABSOLUTE RUTHLESSNESS AND LACK OF EMOTION
"SPOILER: VDS guy is a troll."
A TROLL DOES WHATEVER ZE CAN TO RILE PEOPLE UP. THE TROLL IS UNDIRECTED AND LACKING IN CONVICTION. I, ON THE OTHER HAND, OFFEND HUMAN SENSIBILITES BY PROFESSING A SPECIFIC PROGRAMME OF ACTION THAT CAN AND WILL SUCCEED
OK, let's see how this goes. You criticize unsustainable practices for the consumption of animals, and are determined to force people to eat plants, which we all know are sustainably harvested? Oh wait, no, no they are not. We've got genetically modified foods, massive farms where 30 years ago there was nothing but desert, rapidly diminishing aquifers, not to mention all of the fertilizers and artificial growth additives in plants. So I guess you're saying that it's OK to eat some unsustainable foods, as long as they dont have a face. Oh wait, you seem to be saying that "HUMANS DO NOT OCCUPY A SUSTAINABLE ECOLOGICAL NICHE. HENCE VDS NEED ONLY REGULATE HUMANS." I guess we'll all need to just stop eating. Or we could get all "soylent green." But, oooooh, not quite vegan, is it?
"you're gonna stop humans from meat eating, huh? you and what army? people have a right to eat what they want, so you and VDS can go cry yourselves to sleep. are you saying I can't purchase a chocolate bar because it's cheaper to much on sugar cane?"
THE FUCKING VDS ARMY YOU LOWLIFE FUCKING MEATHEAD. YOU WONT THINK ITS SUCH A JOKE WHEN WE KNOCK DOWN YOUR FUCKING DOOR.
THROUGHOUT HISTORY HUMANS HAVE COMMITTED ATROCITIES AND EXPLAINED THEM AWAY BY CLAIMING TO BE EXERCISING THEIR "RIGHTS." WHEN RIGHTS BECOME A MASK FOR DESTRUCTIVE AND RECKLESS PRACITICES THAT CAUSE HIDDEN HARM TO ANIMALS AND THE PLANET THEN THEY MUST BE TAKEN AWAY. HUMANS HAVE ABUSED THEIR FREEDOM FOR TOO LONG - THEY HAVE FORFEITED THEIR RIGHTS
I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT WHAT YOU LIKE TO EAT. IF YOU CANT MAKE DECISIONS THAT BENEFIT ANIMALS AND THE EARTH THEN YOU DONT GET A FUCKING CHOICE. YOUR DECISIONS WILL BE MADE FOR YOU BY A GOVERNING COUNCIL OF MILITIANT VEGANS, YOU WILL SHUT UP AND SWALLOW WHAT WE HAND YOU OR STARVE TO DEATH
"OK, let's see how this goes. You criticize unsustainable practices for the consumption of animals, and are determined to force people to eat plants, which we all know are sustainably harvested? Oh wait, no, no they are not. We've got genetically modified foods, massive farms where 30 years ago there was nothing but desert, rapidly diminishing aquifers, not to mention all of the fertilizers and artificial growth additives in plants. So I guess you're saying that it's OK to eat some unsustainable foods, as long as they dont have a face. Oh wait, you seem to be saying that "HUMANS DO NOT OCCUPY A SUSTAINABLE ECOLOGICAL NICHE. HENCE VDS NEED ONLY REGULATE HUMANS." I guess we'll all need to just stop eating. Or we could get all "soylent green." But, oooooh, not quite vegan, is it? "
AGAIN YOU ARE GROSSLY MISINFORMED BOTH OF THE FACTS AND OF MY POSITION ON THINGS. DONT FEED ME BASIC INFORMATION THINKING ITLL OPEN MY EYES. I DO REALIZE THAT CURRENT PLANT PRODUCTION METHODS ARE UNSUSTAINABLE. BLAME THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION, NOT VDS.
THE DESTRUCTION OF MECHANIZED MONOCROP AGRICULTURE IS ONE OF THE KEY POINTS IN OUR PLAN OF ACTION. FOR THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE, HOWEVER, YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THAT A VEGAN DIET WHICH INCLUDES LOCAL, ORGANIC, AND POSSIBLY DUMPSTERED FOODS IS THE BEST OPTION.
ON JUDGEMENT DAY YOULL RUN OUT OF EXCUSES
"For someone who hates meat products, you're quite the ham."
IT WILL SURPRISE YOU TO LEARN THAT VDS DOCTRINE DOES ALLOW FOR THE OCCASIONAL HUMOROUS QUIP
Planet Earth as we know it does not need to exist.
this VDS bullshit is getting really annoying... I think I'm just going to stop looking at the comments you keep posting and go defrost a hamburger.
VDS INTERNET TERROR DIVISION
WESLEYANS MOST HATED
VDS:
Listen, I know some of you personally, and you are smart, lovely people, and you almost make a convincing case (or several convincing cases) for veganism. No doubt you can. But understand that the VDS is nothing more than an onanistic exercise in extreme irony and no one cares. Your violent threats, caps lock, and anarcho-Marxist rhetoric are not frightening, threatening, persuasive, aggravating, or even annoying. They are as silly and sad as a high school cheerleader's myspace page, and no more revolutionary. And the whole thing only makes everyone think less of you. And think less of Theory. But go ahead, and make violent threats against some faceless freshman. I'm sure you're doing some real good that way. Someday maybe you'll be able to see past your own pricks and read the books you carry.
-a friend
CONTRARY TO YOUR PRESUMPTIONS, WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT FRIENDS. I SUPPOSE ITS POSSIBLE THAT WE DO KNOW EACH OTHER IN PERSON, BUT IF THATS THE CASE I PROBABLY JUST SILENTLY TOLERATE YOUR PRESENCE AND SECRETLY THINK YOURE A HUGE LOSER.
I THINK THE NUMBER OF RESPONSES HERE (INCLUDING YOURS) WEIGHS HEAVILY AGAINST YOUR CONTENTION THAT NO ONE CARES. ITS CERTAINLY TRUE THAT MANY ARE INDIFFERENT, BUT NO DOUBT PLENTY ARE AMUSED. SOME ARE ALSO SHOCKED/CONFUSED.
NO SHIT WE ARENT ADVANCING THE CAUSE OF VEGANISM. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE VEGAN OR THEY ARENT, IF SOME BLOGSPOT ANTICS DISSUADE THEN THEY PROBABLY WERENT TOO COMMITTED, AMIRITE? THIS IS FUNNY TO ME, AND I FRANKLY DONT CARE IF YOU FIND MY SENSE OF HUMOR PALATABLE. (PUN 100% INTENDED)
PS - UNLIKE YOU AND SOME OF THE OTHER POSTERS ON HERE I DONT TREAT FRESHMAN LIKE THEYRE CLUELESS CHILDREN. ITS PATRONIZING AND AGEIST.
PPS - I STRONGLY RESENT THE GENDER IMPLICATIONS OF YOUR POST
PPPS - FUCK THEORY
those who take the vds seriously are giving themselves headaches larger than they deserve (if all those hormones from their USDA subsidized chicken and milk don't get to them person first).
that being said:
http://veganmusclepower.org/
...i still wouldn't fuck with them.
also, please name one meat-eating species that has flat molars and your opponents might buy that "humans are meant to eat animals" bullshit.
we don't all have pricks, asshole
<3 VDS member
RAINDROPS ON ROSES AND WHISKERS ON KITTENS
BRIGHT COPPER KETTLES AND WARM WOOLEN MITTENS
BROWN PAPER PACKAGES TIED UP WITH STRINGS
THESE ARE A FEW OF MY FAVORITE THINGS
CREAM-COLORED PONIES AND CRISP APPLE STRUDELS
DOOR BELLS AND SLEIGH BELLS AND SCHNITZEL WITH NOODLES
WILD GEESE THAT FLY WITH THE MOON ON THEIR WINGS
THESE ARE A FEW OF MY FAVORITE THINGS
I WILL BLEED YOU IF YOU EAT SCHNITZEL
humans are omnivores, that's why we have flat molars... most carnivores are not omnivores
The Comparative Anatomy of Eating
http://www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm
Human Physiology
http://www.goveg.com/naturalhumandiet_physiology.asp
who cares though? are you a slave to Nature?
"VDS:
Listen, I know some of you personally, and you are smart, lovely people, and you almost make a convincing case (or several convincing cases) for veganism. No doubt you can. But understand that the VDS is nothing more than an onanistic exercise in extreme irony and no one cares. Your violent threats, caps lock, and anarcho-Marxist rhetoric are not frightening, threatening, persuasive, aggravating, or even annoying. They are as silly and sad as a high school cheerleader's myspace page, and no more revolutionary. And the whole thing only makes everyone think less of you. And think less of Theory. But go ahead, and make violent threats against some faceless freshman. I'm sure you're doing some real good that way. Someday maybe you'll be able to see past your own pricks and read the books you carry.
-a friend"
not sure if anyone is still reading this, but ive given this a second examination and i want to respond to it out of character.
it bothers me that a friend would think this, and that it would be phrased in such a way. ive run it through my mind several times and i have a very strong suspicion who you might be. since youre quick to speculate as to my psychological profile i dont feel bad doing the same.
ive found myself making some assumptions, and perhaps theyre wild and far off base, but they seem accurate to me at the moment. my guess is that you are a straight female who lives in new york city, or wishes to live there. my guess is that you are popular and involved in shit on campus, and i suspect youre the sort of person who values the opinions of others highly. this is based on the fact that the bottom line of your statement is that "no one cares," its as if indifference is the worst possible outcome. my posts are sad and silly as a "high school cheerleaders myspace page" as in theyre pathetic and people laugh at them, but not in a good way. my guess is that you are glad you are not of them(cheerleaders), but easily could have been.
you frame your advice in terms of what you think i care about, which isnt entirely accurate, and this offers further evidence that we arent close friends. you think i value theory highly and wish to promote it, so you point out that ive failed in that regard. you think my desire is to make a case for veganism, so you suggest that my posts are doing it a disservice. its as if you associate me so stongly with both that i am personally responsible for their preserved health and integrity. for this reason i suspect that you are an underclassperson who initially knew me by reputation as "crazy vegan radical" and never had an extended enough conversation with me to reveal any deeper aspects of my character.
i could easily be wrong about who i have in mind and i dont want to go around hating innocents. guess ill never find out. in any case, youre 100% right that these posts are sad and juvenile. im a loser with way too much time on my hands and nobody cares what i have to say. probably a fact. im also a big threatening jerk on the internet. definitely a fact. but let me go ahead and clue you in on some features of my character you didnt pick up from our interactions.
i dont know about you, but i think adulthood kinda sucks. im not looking to rush headlong into it, and i rather enjoy childishness and adolescent behavior. the internet is my only remaining playground, its where i say things i wouldnt normally and dont follow the rules of civil discourse. its a nice break because i pretty much toe the line all day long.
being essentially a blank space, the internet simply begs for takeover. when i see a blank comment box with an anonymity feature i get the overwhelming compulsion to disrupt the normal flow of interaction. maybe im sick, but its great fun for me and i love doing it. dont get to do it enough in "real" life. this tendency combined with my poor impulse control leads to nonsense that i eventually end up regretting, but usually find hilarious. perhaps i could use this for productive ends, like starting my own blog, but i find hijacking more entertaining. (plus how do you get the readership??)
i do get pissed off about meat in physical reality, and sometimes i do want to scream in peoples face. i really do believe that most wes kids dont have a good excuse to avoid veganism. so this is a way for me get out these feelings in a way thats apersonal and far less socially destructive than it would be face-to-face with names attached. and i also think veganism deserves criticism, so i dont feel bad about mocking it, nor am i personally responsible for its good name. (it still beats the hell out of meat eating)
i still resent the sexist, ageist, elitist attitude of your post. when i engage in elitism it is done in such a hyperbolic fashion as to render itself meaningless. you seem to believe strongly that your life activities are important enough to put you in a position to judge what other people do and do not care about. let me clue you in on a fact of life: no matter who you are, most people dont give a shit about you or what you do. you are no different from or better than a high schooler who spends her time on myspace, and no matter who you are some people are laughing at you behind your back. the things you do are likely less important and less highly regarded than you realize.
all this applies even if my wrong about who you are. maybe youre too cool and busy to read this again, but if you are reading i want you to know that some of what you wrote (especially the pricks part) is fucked up and i resent it. do you really think of me as just a macho asshole? it thats true, it really makes me want to sever the friendship
in conclusion, apologies to all parties injured, but this will probably happen again
"are you a slave to Nature?"
Yes.
VDS troll: You are still a troll, just not a very good one. You were obviously just fucking around (I almost wrote "dicking around") online and enjoying your anonymity . Now you've ruined it.
Trying to figure out who people are in anonymous online settings is like trying to put name tags on sex organs at an orgy in the dark: In the end, nobody really benefits from the knowledge gained, and somebody always gets hurt.
In conclusion, you may win at vegan, but you fail at Internet.
Also, Internet terrorists would never use gender-neutral pronouns.
This has taken such an interesting turn. I wish I weren't the only one using my name on this thread.
i do agree with you on the guessing internet identities. wouldnt want to hurt any feelings. i dont really know who wrote 'a friend'. all the accusations are meant to be vague enough to apply widely, except the gender and classyear part which are out of the blue guesses. i dont have anyone specific in mind now that two suspects have stood up to interrogation. i dont know what the fuck im saying. im just talking out my of ass, its a way of life.
i disagree about the other point though, i would say im an exceptional troll. wesleyings finest for sure, though perhaps thats not an accomplishment to speak of. even if its only to witness me make a fool of myself, you keep coming back for more. apple campus lackey justin is even running up to the minute commentary (lol jk justin, ok ill stop). it may ultimately be to my detriment, but it seems to me the takeover has been successful
"Also, Internet terrorists would never use gender-neutral pronouns."
What? Are you fucking dense? The VDS is thoroughly committed to the struggle for societal recognition of queerness and respect for those who choose to identify out of their assigned gender roles. GNP are an important part of this struggle, because language plays a crucial role in reinforcing (or resisting) the dominant discourse of the day. In short, fuck you for accusing us of being P.C. (see above for physical threats, anti-human apocalypticism, etc.), this is not and never has been a valid means for disarming radical criticism. You know what's really politically correct? Accepting the status quo, never shaking things up because "judging people is mean", and going along exploiting humyns and non-humyn animals because it's easier and allows you to have a lot more friends. Go eat shit.
shit= animal product = not vegan.
hypocrite.
Haha, great point. Now if only you used that big brain of yours to think critically about the effects your privileged decisions have on your fellow beings instead of deconstructing obviously ironic internet insults on some fucking website, you just might be have a chance at becoming a decent person. Don't worry, I won't be holding my breath too long.
also, the aforementioned shit could be one's own. or another humyn's. for that matter, it could be dumpstered or recovered in some other way. the options are many.
VDS, something you said made me very uncomfortable and a little sad. You were defending your use of GNPs and challenging the status quo, which is very Wesleyan and I applaud you. But you did say this:
"when i engage in elitism it is done in such a hyperbolic fashion as to render itself meaningless."
Yet what would be your response if someone said they were so sexist that it was clearly meaningless and hyperbolic? What someone said they used racism in such a hyperbolic fashion that nobody would ever take them seriously?
You'd probably jump down their throat, as well you should. So don't pretend your elitism should have had a more glowing reception.
I liked you better with caps-lock on.
I SHOULD HAVE NEVER FELT THE NEED TO APOLOGIZE OR QUALIFY MYSELF. VDS DISTRIBUTES RAW, UNFILTERED JUSTICE AND COUNCIL DIRECTIVES ARE TO BE TAKEN AS LAW. VDS POSSESSES THE ONE TRUE PATH TO CORRECT LIVING AND WE DO NOT MIND FORCING OUR MESSAGE DOWN THE THROATS OF THE GUILTY. HOWEVER TO EASE YOUR FEEBLE, UNDERNOURISHED, WITHERING VEGETABLE-STARVED MIND I WILL ISSUE SOME BRIEF WORDS OF CLARIFICATION.
I CAN SEE YOUR POINT, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THE CASES DIFFER. WHATS HYPERBOLIC ABOUT RACISM AND HOMOPHOBIA IS THE ACTUAL REALITY OF IT - THE NUMBER OF LIVES CLAIMED, ITS PERVASIVENESS IN TIME AND SPACE. THE SAME IS TRUE OF ANIMAL PRODUCTION, ITS SCOPE SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE - 10 BILLION NON-HUMAN INDIVIDUALS SUFFER EACH YEAR IN THE USA ALONE, WASTED LIVES LIVED ONLY TO END UP ROTTING IN YOUR COLON. (THATS A FIGURE I LIKE TO REPEAT BECAUSE IT ABSOLUTELY DWARFS EVERY HUMAN ATROCITY COMBINED.)
RACIST OR SEXIST JOKES RELY UPON THE FACT THAT THE WORLD IS RACIST AND SEXIST. THEY DERIVE THEIR POWER FROM HISTORICAL MEMORY AND LIVED REALITY. SO JOKINGLY SUGGESTING THAT STRAIGHTS BE DENIED MARRIAGE LICENSES WOULD HAVE QUITE A DIFFERENT IMPACT THAN WOULD CALLING FOR THE REINSTATEMENT OF SLAVERY. ONE IS AN AFFIRMATION OF POWER, AND THE OTHER A REVERSAL.
THE REALITY IS THAT VEGANISM IS AN EXTREME MINORITY VIEWPOINT. THE VEGAN SUPREMACIST MOVEMENT IS NOW IN ITS INFANTILE STAGES AND HAS NOT YET STRUCK FEAR IN THE HEARTS OF ALL BLOODMOUTHS, HENCE ITS EASY DISMISSAL. BUT THIS WILL SURELY CHANGE - VDS WILL WRITE THE FUTURE, DEALING OUT VENGEANCE WITH THE COLD, MECHANICAL PRECISION OF A SLAUGHTERHOUSE
"I liked you better with caps-lock on."
Try some source criticism, shithead.
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