Fox Does Wes
Hunter King '08 said he spotted Wes on the local Fox News tonight about the new scholarships for Veterans. There's also an article with quotes from Eugene Wong '09, president of Wesleyan Republicans, and Izaak Orlansky '08.
November 19, 2007
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26 comments:
Quit your hating, Lauraalyse. Who the hell are you, either way? No reason to be so testy about this stuff!
I don't see how you're last comment makes any sense, Lauraalyse. You can't disagree with what Orlansky said while agreeing that the scholarships are a good thing. If the returning soldiers have been given that money for a reason (aside from a purely arbitrary decision), then Orlansky must have come pretty close to hitting it on the head. I'm no republican. I'm a person who dislikes what they stand for enough to not tolerate reflex-based arguments against them.
~MP
As for the edit:
I misread what Orlansky had meant. I should have looked closer. My apologies.
Yeah, you should have (looked closer). Gosh.
The Veteran scholarships have netted Wesleyan a lot of local press, actually.
It was also in Sunday's Hartford Courant (the same article as on the Fox 61 website) as well as on another local news station WTNH last night.
"A lot of the students here don't even know people who have served," said Eugene Wong, a junior from Needham, Mass., and president of the Wesleyan chapter of College Republicans. "All they know is George Bush, the war and oil. ... They don't see the human aspect of the war because they are clouded by the rhetoric."
is this an implication that the livelihoods of iraq war soldiers post-discharge is somehow more related to "the human aspect of the war" than say hmm... 400,000 dead?
anon 7:35-
the livelihoods of post-disharge american soldiers in iraq is just as related as the 400,000 dead iraqis. remember that the soldiers are told what to do... they didnt choose to go there. show some respect for people who willingly put their lives on the line for their country (no matter how misplaced that country's directives are)
Actually it was big NATIONAL news last week - front page USA Today on Thus:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-11-14-gi-bill_N.htm
They also chatted it up on the CBS Morning Show on Friday (I had to get up for a 9 o'clock class and had it on).
ok, so i know this is going to piss some people off but I don't care. I am actually mad about this scholarship. I do not think that we should ever offer more educational benefits for people who serve in the armed forces, for fear that it will become a reason to enlist in the first place. Too many young people sign up just to be able to go to college. And this just adds to that incentive, no? Also just because I disagree with the war and would never serve in the army, does that make me less deserving of a scholarship? Maybe I should just go sign up...then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now. Why is it that a disproportionate number of soldiers come from the bottom half of the social-economic class in the US, measures like these I am sure contribute to that phenomena. There is nothing patriotic about selling yourself and potentially dying in an unjust war. Sure they are sent to Iraq, but how can they live with themselves and come back and deal with the reality of what this war is...a huge fucked up mess.s. (I guess that is why we must keep this whole myth about how killing people that the government tells you to kills is patriotic.) We should not be there. Granted we should not give returning soldiers a hard time or anything, but I am sick of glorifying war, of glorifying serving the country by blindly following orders and not being able to challenge them, it is dangerous rhetoric. How is going off to die any more patriotic than being a public school teacher or public servant or a diplomat? I don't think we should celebrate war culture. Sure we should take care of veterans when they get back and provide them the best health care and psychological services possible, but creating these kinds of incentives is perverse. I am ashamed that Wesleyan is doing this. I suppose rich alumni can give money to support what ever cause they wish, but why not reward those having volunteered time pursuing humanitarian goals or peace. The American war culture is sickening, combine that with one of the most messed up, unaffordable education systems in the world and look at what the results are: exclusive, upper-middle class, liberal arts college, that are unaffordable for the average American offering scholarships on the basis of military service. Since when did knowing how to kill Iraqi's become a desirable attribute in a college applicant?
anonymous 12:15 pm:
I completely whole-heartedly agree. That's all.
Are you an idiot?
For many youths stuck in impoverished situations, joining the armed forces represents one of the best ways of escaping the vicious circle of poverty. Some die, some get sucked in again, and few escape, even through the military. NO ONE who joins the military looks at it as "the easy way to a college education."
anon@12:15
When you say "Maybe I should just go sign up...then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now."
It sounds an awful lot like the white folks I grew up around who say "If only I my skin was [whatever color] then I wouldn't have to pay for college."
Just saying.
The reason that there are incentives for members of any group (including veterans) who apply to SLACs is because members of that group are underrepresented in the upper echelons of education.
I don't purport to know anything about you, but if military service wasn't your only ticket out of town then I think you should consider yourself lucky.
Well here's a nice alternative: poor youth signs up for military (maybe because they support their country. Who are you to say they can't think that?), comes back with no education benefits, ends up a homeless veteran.
Really simplified but it's not like it hasn't happened plenty
12:46, I have to disagree with your characterization of no one joining the military to help pay for a college degree. Perhaps the clearest argument against this would be the military academies, which offer a 4-year degree in exchange for 5 years of active duty service. Moreover, the services use their educational programs as part of recruitment campaigns.
Getting an education might not be worth it in our eyes, but it certainly is worth it to some people.
As to the larger question of the appropriateness of providing incentives for people to join the military, it's worth noting that a military is simply a natural and necessary extension of the state. No stable and modern state can exist today without some assurance of its own security. Such assurances always come from either the protection of one's army ot that of an ally. So militaries are necessary, even if they are unsavory.
So the question becomes, who do we want serving in the military? It seems reasonable to me to prefer learned and intellectually curious people for military service than those that want to be in the military for other means. Not only does this create a better officer corps, but I think this will also give us a stronger, more ethical military. Scholarships like the one at Wes are one of the best ways of ensuring this kind of force. Ultimately, such scholarships serve a good purpose, for the military, incentivizing the right kind of people to join up.
I think they should actually go a step further and start a ROTC branch here at Wes. Imagine what the military would be like if we had more officers with a Wes education!? Talk about creative chaos! Luv it!
who are you to say what is patriotic and what is not? many of the soldiers in iraq go in whole heartedly believing they are doing what is best for their country. some come out disillusioned, and the media, especially the left-wing media, likes to play up those stories, but plenty come back and serve again and again. just because you don't agree with the war does not mean they shouldn't be rewarded for at least having the balls to sign up to protect the nation - they didn't choose to specifically go to iraq and kill civilians. you may be complaining about how we choose to use our armed forces, but be grateful we have such a strong military in the first place, where we have freedoms to voice our dissent. giving vets scholarships does not have any effect on the war or its portrayal - those against it will still be against it.. this is just giving the soldiers a break, especially since many of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds anyway.
Man, i wouldn't be here without veteran's benefits or ROTC. Education has ALWAYS been a reason to join the military.
well i saw A fox AT wesleyan the other night
education has ALWAYS ALWAYS been a reason to join the military.
Not to be nit-picky, but education has only been a reason to join up since the GI bill after WWII
Ok, first of all, all of you make some really good points.
I am not anti-solider, I feel bad for them actually. But when I saw my high school classmates enlisting in order to get the chance to go to college I felt sick. Now that I know people in Iraq I feel even sicker. Yes, I am mad about how the US employs the military overseas. Yet, I do realize that we must have a military and I realize that we must have soldiers to send in peace keeping missions and for defensive reasons and such. (….something about Weber’s definition of politics, right?) But what I have a problem with is the American concept and mentality of patriotism and how rigidly defined it is. I am not trying to say that soldiers are not patriotic, they could very well be, only I happen to think they are no more patriotic than many other individuals who serve the country in various other capacities. (so who are you, to say what patriotism is?) Let’s face it, we take kids from poor families, ship them overseas…they are scared shitless in a nightmare of a war zone and we call them heroes so we can justify what we are doing. I hate that democrats have voted for the war and to fund it out of fear of not looking ‘patriotic enough’ or tough enough on terror. What a joke. I hate that education particularly at Wesleyan is so unaffordable for so many people…if we are going to start giving scholarships for those who buy into the US government’s bargain then we better take a good look at what that is. Our president has lied to us, repeatedly. Our education system in terms of higher education is one of the best in the world but is remarkably inequitable and hence basically inaccessible to many in the working class. Don’t even get me started on health care…so why should we give money to those who are willing to do what the government wants them too, which is basically what joining the armed forces is. Clearly, I disagree with the war and the way we use our military in general so I would automatically be disqualified from benefiting from one of these scholarships. I would never enlist as a result of my beliefs. So why must we only reward those who either agree with the government or are so desperate they don’t really care. And who am I to criticize our government, you ask? I am just another poor student struggling to pay for college and make it through. But damn it, it is my right to be critical of the war and the way we are using our ridiculous amount of military power. And it is my right to be critical of the kinds of scholarships my school promotes, not that I can actually do much about it. Notice only the rich, control the notion of patriotism, it is convenient for them, they can glorify the war, fool people into signing up and not actually have to engage in it themselves, or if they do, they can do so as officers since of course they would be educated anyways, talk about Marxist ideological control. Like how part of the presidential elections last time turned into a debate about Kerry and how he was as a swift boat captain…as if I really cared or as if that matters one iota.
The fact that we spend $ 532.8 million (or 47% of the world’s military budget), 3.7 percent of our GPA, on our military (and this does not count most of the money being spent in Iraq as it is provided mostly by supplementary spending bills that fall outside the national budget) at the same time that an estimated 70% of students do not have the required funds to attend college and are dependant on loans, pisses me off. If you want better trained soldiers, why don’t you recruit them from universities before sending them overseas to die, oh wait…that would not work…the young educated college graduates would be too critical and not willing to go (not to mention they could get better jobs outside the military, ones not involving possible death and warfare maybe) Geez. No one seems to mind that we are sending poor young people who signed up for the military to get out of poverty off to Iraq to come back in body bags. Yes there is something profoundly wrong with making education available through military service. If you are wealthy then no problem, if u are poor and want an education, well then you better go be patriotic first and hope to god you come back alive. And maybe these young people are comfortable with that choice, but I sure as hell am not.
Oh and I cannot spell and my grammar is pretty awful. I admit it. Maybe they should kick me out of WES?
-OP
to 7:42/12:15
"I do not think that we should ever offer more educational benefits for people who serve in the armed forces, for fear that it will become a reason to enlist in the first place."
It's not as if everyone is going to now jump out and enlist so college can be cheaper. Rational people have some understanding of what going overseas entails. And there's a whole lot of pain and other hardships that happen when someone serves that neither you nor I will probably ever know. So if they come out of that experience, (most likely) poor from the start and now isolated from the country they just left, I think it is extremely fair to give them aid. To lend a hand and acknowledge that they did sacrifice their life. It seems you're criticizing the educational system as well, not the war, since you admit that the rich can afford the more expensive colleges. So then why not challenge the educational system? Other countries, like France, basically give degrees away for free. I hate the war in Iraq. I want it to be over. But the people who fight aren't just soldiers, get it? This is about giving someone aid in the aftermath more than it is an incentive to go risk a few years of your life.
I think all of this makes a great case for mandatory military service in this country regardless of income level. They do it in lots of countries and it provides an opportunity for service and to understand the sacrifices of freedom. Also enacting such a plan would eliminate "don't ask, don't tell."
Question: why did they not try to contact RJ?
November 19, 2007 2:03 PM : Brilliant, but I think that at the time that I was thinking about schools I would have been turned off from Wes if it had a ROTC branch, I think I'm a little more open minded now, but I think most kids are more open-minded after Wes than before, so just a thought about how that might skew the student body.
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